9th February 2007

Corruption in Affiliate Marketing? Sycophants Crossing Palms With Silver?

posted in Closed Groups, PPC Brand Name Bidding |
Spread the love

WOW (no not World Of Warcraft)! Fraser at Affiliate Blog is really stoking the fire with his lastest & boldest blog entry.

Corruption in Affiliate Marketing

Our Comment was:

“Blimey Fraser … controversial thread indeed… Simply examine some of the cliques at events & tie this in with some of the lower profiles who are maybe less vociferous, then follow the breadcrumb trail down to a parking lot off the M3, from the gingerbread house lading back to the village, or if you prefer go by Gravy Train or better still have a heli-pad on the roof. It’s surprising how a few beers lowers inhibitions & loosens the tongue.

Apart from observing the patterns, links in the ppc market, social circles & reactions & responses from the suspecting offending affiliates, networks, merchants or agencies the conundrum slowly reveals itself. You can deliberately lay the bait & the red herrings & surprising how gullible they can be. By soaking up the focus whilst others investigate.

B.T. way, It’s also interesting & worth lending an ear to what previous employees of the odd network may divulge. Whether it be conspiracy theory or fact or whether the evidence / suggestions presented can only be deemed as circumstantial, there is enough information out there to maybe point to the latter, suggesting it maybe rife with regard to the volume of transactions passing through, but only small with regard to the numbers of people / organisations involved.

If you took the top 5 programs within certain (not all) networks with a closed bidding group policy away, I do wonder how this would effect their turnover. Some of these parties have possibly already made their fortunes, so a curtail in the practice maybe just now matter of principle, but unscrupulous people just get greedier.

P.S. It’s been suggested that by making the above comment or having an opinion. Some way not speak with me again or be on their guard. Oh well, at least it will permit more time socialising with true mates.”

I am looking forward to perusing some of the comments on Fraser’s Affiliate Blog, from peoples who’s opinions I listen & value, rather than posting a full blown opinion on here.

No doubt as already suggested by a network we will be accused as being judge, jury & executioner .. what whining .. hey ho .. better than the Kangeroo Courts than existed before when these so called deemed Cartels materialiased.

We have recently approached some networks to ascertain which programs are closed group within their network, to offer transparency to affiliates, this will be the next blog.

I have a cunning plan, more cunning than a very cunning thing. Even more cunning than a fox, in fact, a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it weazel. Perhaps the solution is to become a sycophant.

Sycophant

This entry was posted on Friday, February 9th, 2007 at 5:32 PM and is filed under Closed Groups, PPC Brand Name Bidding. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

There are currently 3 responses to “Corruption in Affiliate Marketing? Sycophants Crossing Palms With Silver?”

Why not let us know what you think by adding your own comment! Your opinion is as valid as anyone elses, so come on... let us know what you think.

  1. 1 On May 9th, 2007, Paul said:

    Here are replys from Fraser’s Blog:

    Jason says:

    Getting a level playing field is difficult, people will argue “it’s business” and in business no playing fields are level. The problems in AM at the moment, imo, are pure and simply down to lack of transparency.

    You could argue quite strongly that closed PPC groups, especially those where there are strong relationships between the affiliate members, are potentially bordering on being a cartel – which are prohibited under UK law. However, as there’s no transparency, and no way of knowing who’s doing what with what program, it’s a very difficult theory to examine.

    The trouble is where you have a lot of ££’s sloshing around – people are happy to be less than transparent, to trample over whoever’s in their way, and sell their grandmother if it came down to it. Apparently that’s “business”!

    Jules says:

    This is something I’ve been having a discussion about today, I’m trying to get a simple bit of information from a network. I’ve been assured that nothing untoward is going on but I think I’m being fed bull. I’ll not mention the network at the moment as I’ll give them time to mull over the discussion we’ve had, but there is absolutely no transparency at all.

    I’ll go with Jason and agree it’s bordering on a cartel. These people would think nothing of, and have already stabbed friends in the back to get them kicked off programs so they can keep it for themselves.

    Wardy says:

    It’s definately something neededing to be looked at, it’s just hard to prove anything I guess.

    If it’s that someone is doing brand and absolutely nothing else then it’s seriously very unfair, I can understand brand being given to people who actively promote a program but not those who don’t do anything to promote the program.

    Shane says:

    From what I’ve seen and heard the situation is clear.. less than a football squad of guys getting all the major gravy.. this leads one to believe either :

    A) The closed playboy club group are simply amazing at ppc, no other ppc affiliate could EVER come close so it’s pointless trying as these guys are the NASA of affiliate marketing, the champs above us mere chumps, despite the fact that exact match rules the day and most (sure not all, but most) sit purely on brand alone, for some [brand name + keyword] is hard work, these guys are adding NOTHING to the mix except pure profit for network and themselves, the merchant is paying out where an office junior could be running this kind of closed group brand only campaign instead.

    B) The networks see no reason in sharing it around and prefer to let the playboy team get uber rich (ok richer) as they will do as they are told and they have them on a short lead, plus there’s less information leakage with a small manageable team in play, less information flying around and therefore justification required for what’s going on in closed groups.

    C) Someone / some few.. somewhere has / have a vested interest in keeping the pool as small as possible as they are directly benefiting personally, ie getting wedges for being complicit in the strategic assigning who gets in a closed group, smaller the group more manageable the logistics of secrecy which appears to be the new “open door policy” of networks now, they wont even tell you what’s closed anymore.. never mind offer a chance to play. (ok except tradedoubler who want a 24 page tender, DNA and a kidney as deposit)

    D) or a combination of them all..

    oh just to clarify I was being sarcastic on point one… my 8 year old can bid on [brand name] ** 0.05 !! (ok also on the kidney and DNA.. but strangely not the 24 page tender ! as crazy as it sounds.. tradedoubler do demand that)

    Personally from what I’ve seen and heard it’s evident some (yes only some.. not all !) people who have the ability to decide who does what in a closed group scenario have benefited outside their job salary in kind as well as been more directly compensated.

    If a group is worth £30k a month to an affiliate some would be prepared to do anything to ensure they kept their hand in there… and some guys have their hands in far too many campaigns like that, leads one to think that there is something more than just a synergistic relationship with the network going on there or of course it could be that they are just the rain men of PPC talent.. and simply that no one else can use [brand name] ** 0.05 as effectively so why try.

    maybe it’s time to form the “xmen”.. ppc mutants (ie those considered incapable/unwashed/stray in point A above lol) who directly approach merchants that are clearly getting fleeced on closed groups by affiliates bidding solely on brand, and offer them a better deal, at times it’s evident the merchants interests aren’t primary at all, in many cases the merchant isn’t necessarily getting the best deal unless he just wants his own brand traffic at full affiliate network price and doesn’t care it’s not even subsidising any generic PPC activity and that it’s all going towards a black hawk helicopter or 100 foot yacht for one of the ppc closed group playboy club.

    I am sure that the above will go down well in the closed circles and some aff managers won’t read it too kindly (especially the straight ones !), some of the closed group guys are friends but the landscape is unbalanced and it’s not healthy for anyone in the long run (cept the playboy club and anyone directly benefiting I guess) but I’m afraid I call things how I see them nowdays, I’m not always right but in this case I’m more on the money than off it…

    on a lighter note .. book of the week I’d like to recommend is “how to win friends and influence people”.. he he.. obviously you can tell I haven’t read it

    Kieron says:

    LOL, brilliant reply Shane.

    As someone who has been involved in brand name bidding here’s my point of view.

    I think the days of simply sitting solely on a brand name are well and truly gone. As Shane says, an 8 year old can do this and it adds no value to either the brand or the visitor searching the search engines for a brand. To be totally honest I have only ever been invited into closed groups because I’ve delivered high volumes of sales from (expensive) generic terms. So from my point of view I’ve never even had the opportunity to make £30k a month profit from just sitting on brand in the early days – damn why didn’t I get involved in this earlier!

    Over the last year I’ve totally opted out of the handful of brand ppc campaigns that I was running for 2 reasons. 1. Google are making it harder and harder to send traffic to a merchant via a landing page/site and I know this will only get worse. 2. Brand name bidding is a giant pain in the bum. You have to have every aspect of your site approved by the merchant, you are constantly 24/7 monitoring bids and trying to ensure you stay in your allocated position, and loads of other niggles that really bug me.

    So instead I’ve built up a few generic “quality” sites that I send my traffic too. By doing this not only do I add value to the users searching for comparisons, reviews etc. but I also add value to merchants by giving them another source of traffic. And oh yes, I can ask for higher commissions than the brand ppc boys as generic terms are more expensive.

    And as for corruption and bribery? I can hand on heart say that I have never seen it or heard anything about it whatsover.

    Paula says:

    Why wouldn’t there be corruption in this business? There is corruption in most businesses and affiliate marketing would be no different. Let’s hope this practice doesn’t become widespread as I don’t want to see affiliate marketing getting a soured reputation.

    Jamie says:

    Well I have to put my 5 pence in!

    I guess I’m probably included in the playboy club and feel that it is now time to say enough is enough! I have worked bloody hard over the last five years to get where I am. I have invested not only countless hours of mine and my staff’s time, but have also invested millions of pounds into campaigns, some of which make a substantial loss which is never recouped. Maybe in the past I was slightly naïve, and didn’t do the level of generic bidding I should have (we are all guilty of this). The industry has dramatically changed and now every closed program we run we reinvest as much as possible. I want to be in this industry for years to come and understand that sitting on brands without adding “real value” in the generic market place is a short term approach. I believe that if you don’t prove your worth then you should not be permitted to stay on a program!

    I would also like to make it quite clear that I have never paid or given a back-hander and never would! I work hard trying to show this industry in a positive and professional light, and think that it is essential for the future of affiliate marketing that we all keep as “clean” as possible.

    I have used the following analogy before and will probably use it again:

    I guess everyone has a mechanic they use, who they trust and does a good job! What would you say if a different mechanic came up to you and said that “it’s not fair you use “bob” all the time” and that you should use him instead. Would you move away from Bob? Even if the new mechanic is offering, on the face of it a slightly better or faster service, I think most of you would admit that without the historical back up of providing a good service you would not move to the new mechanic! Essentially I think most brand ppc’ers have proven their worth and are now trusted. I know that there are still a few bad apples, but it is easy to see who they are and I do not feel they will be around for long.

    I and the company try our best at all times to keep merchants happy and prove our worth(which isn’t easy), not only with results but also reports, traffic analysis (Hitwise), site design/redesign, hour upon hours of meetings, Loss of money etc!

    TBH I cannot wait for brand to die, and btw I don’t think that will be long!

    God I miss the old days…

    Jamie

    Clarke says:

    Some times closed groups are a no choice option for a Network to accept, do Paid On Results have any closed groups, yes we do! Do I agree with closed groups? No I do not in the majority of circumstances but in a few cases I can see why they are needed and it should be plain to see why certain people are picked above others.

    Closed groups! I didn’t think Paid On Results had any until I was thinking about my response to this blog post, this was because the only one we have was for the brand names of the company and the deal was simply that they wanted a few trusted Affiliates who they pre-selected to be allowed to bid on the brand as long as it was direct to site and they did generic bidding, also a few people who have proven themselves for other campaigns where selected by us and we asked if they could take part. Now Affiliates had the choice of two networks to use, and it turned out one of the Affiliates on the other network outbid the Affiliates on our network and this is why I am was thinking we didn’t have any as they had the one and only slot for this brand due to the way Google now works and so this closed group disappeared in to obscurity. Are they also doing the generics? I have no idea, that up to the other Network and the Merchant to police for themselves. But the choice for us in this occasion was a simple one, they said we want a few “trusted people” for the brand name bidding or we will pay an agency to do the PPC and not allow the Affiliates to do that part, so wasn’t about to say no.

    Is it wrong for a Network to select a few known trusted partners to bid on brand at the direction of a Merchant? No, however I don’t like the closed down no one else is getting in groups, my personal choice is for it to be also open to people who perform. So if you’re doing really well on generics or other campaigns then you should be getting the invite to the closed program. The current people in the closed program might prefer to have it all to themselves but if they know upfront this is the way you work as a Network they can hardly complain if someone is doing well on the old generic keyword front and gets invited in.

    What I do object to is and this is where the corruption part comes in (and thankfully this had never happened to us as a Network, as I simply would not accept that type of blackmail) is when an Affiliate contacts you and says, I want you to remove all the other Affiliates and make me the sole guy that can do all the PPC, I am making you a ton of cash and if you don’t do it I will stop promoting your Merchants. Ah! no way, that’s not on, to me you should be holding your own position on campaigns and sure ask for more commission if your doing well, if the Merchant has the budget they will give you it in many cases but you can’t create your own virtual monopoly at the expense of fellow Affiliates. You need to say to yourself how would you like it if someone bigger than you did the same thing in return? Can’t say I would be overly chuffed if as an example with Loquax turned around and said don’t give UK Competitions that competition blah blah… However I know in the past that a Network pre-selected me to do a competition as I was doing go numbers and shut everyone else out the deal, Jason was rightly upset at that Network, but this is the key point he was not upset at me because we know each other and he knows it was the Network that selected me and not me asking for him to not be allowed on it.. However this is a point in that if you don’t know the other Affiliate well enough to be able to ask them outright, then you would be left thinking, did UK Competitions slip a brown bag of money to the Affiliate Manager… I am more than sure a few people that don’t know me will be thinking that’s what happened.

    Networks and Merchants have to be very careful when they do such deals as it impacts on everyone else they work with. You have to balance working with the guys that are already working with you and giving you volumes as well ask keeping it open for new comers to be allowed in on the “action” once they have proven themselves.

    I will make no bones about it, if I have a hot product or hot Merchant that I know will fly out the door, I will call up the top performing group of Affiliates first and yes many of these guys are my friends mostly because we can have a drink together after events and get on well with each other, they don’t always listen to me and action what I say (your loss). Is this closed in anyway, no it open to everyone that wants to work with my company and do results, if your making £100 a year sorry but your not going to be first on my list to call.

    There is a preserved corruption, some things are actually just not fair but it’s not corrupt. Other things, well they are a little in that basically saying you won’t promote someone if you don’t get your own way or an exclusive to be the only person is not far off blackmail. This is normally the realm of the Affiliate that is insecure in there position in the market… it would be the same if a Network said if you don’t use us exclusively then we are bombing you out all the top deals, what Affiliate in there right mind is going to use just one Network.

    Ok now I am rattling on to much… I will close with saying.

    Do not confuse the hard work and success of top Affiliates to gain positions of trust and respect that they can perform so are then offered certain deals you are not, as corruption. But don’t ever accept from anyone that you will never be offered this same opportunity if you work as hard as they do, the smart Merchant and Network will balance this along with allowing competition to thrive and decent Affiliates will accept there position can not be secured by removing the competition, it can only be secured by doing the work and bringing in the results.

    p.s. I make no apologies that just about everyone who have responded to this thread are good Affiliates in there chosen field and if I come to you guys first about something hot, it’s because you earned that.

  2. 2 On October 20th, 2007, Lee McCoy said:

    Hi mate,

    I hope you don’t mind me following up with a post I’ve just done on the topic?

    The situation has just pissed me off no-end with the recent NMA comments.

    My post is here

  3. 3 On October 20th, 2007, Paul said:

    WOW Lee, Powerful article by yourself, I have absolutely no problem at all and good to see someone else take up the reins on this subject & have duly backed your blog like so many you have written. Realistically the only solution around this is fight fire with fire, rather than the diplomatic channels which are now fairly exhausted and networks have refused to engage in.

    All it takes is a few good guys to group together & by pass the network. However these so called original closed groups have already made their fortunes (and still are) allowing them to plough into more adventurous projects, while some are still milking the same cow whilst it is still fat.

    I never forget when one high profile network representative said to me about another high profile closed group affiliate, that he was there to build the others business & that the situation wouldn’t change. Which can be interpreted by one as what is deemed appropriate.

    A significant income of a couple of networks have been fairly dependent on the over-ride via closed groups, if not top then certainly amongst their top performing programs, because of only brand bidding not generic alongside it.

Leave a Reply