1st August 2008

Tradedoubler – Don’t You Dare Threaten Me … You Liars Liars Liars !!! www.tradedoubler.com Affiliate Network

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Tradedoubler I have absolutely had it up to the back teeth with you guys. Don’t you dare threaten us & make false accusations.

If you want to threaten our business which the livelihood & financial security of my family & children, just be careful & ask yourself this simple question .. If you have kids how hard would you fight for them & their welfare! Do you think any responsible parent is going to “deliberately” do anything to jeopardise their future?

Watch your step!

The rest will follow soon but it really is about time this network got it’s ship in order, yet how many times have we said that, will it ever?

We will possibly / probably need to contact each merchant on their network to look at alternative solutions.

Unfortunately it’s a familiar situation, & in my personal opinion they try to make you look like idiots … annoyingly condescending in their demeanour … snobbish & aloof disregard for affiliates … unapproachable & unreasonable to deal with … unsatisfcatory resolution to issues & can’t accept when they are wrong or deal with matters amicably. One or two people in particular at Tradedoubler we have had the misfortune of dealing with have a mindset is so not attuned with industry. Where with most other networks with any similar concerns they are a lot more approachable & amicable to deal with.

There is also the same old lack of continuity in their keyword policies, there are in fact several different places you have to look as they can seem quite hidden & one day they might appear, when they were not there previously. And it’s a game of russian roulette if you receive notification of keyword policy changes. As for broadmatch / synonym match, do these rock apes still need further education in this. Changing the terms of a keyword policy is in effect changing the contract with each merchant.

Would they dare change the t&c’s of a contract at any period down the line with one of their clients without notifying them, of course they wouldn’t (or do they). But they expect you to be psychic.

This is not related but check out the number of merchants keyword policies for clause

4.6 You are allowed to show adverts on trademarks, or variations, of advertiser’s competitors?

And ascertain the number & proportion of merchants which actually say “yes”.

Lets take the first merchant I took at random … this is Lensway. To clause 4.6 they say “yes”, but further up on the page it says ” Lensway do not allow affiliates to buy keywords on competitor’s brands, in any combination.” Though whilst I agree affiliates or competitors shouldn’t, and I don’t think this should be encouraged either. There is a conflicting message. Historically there is a continuing problem with their lack of a single point of reference for keyword policies.

A second randomly chosen one who says “yes” to 4.6 is Natural Figures. The list goes on & on & on.

So Tradedoubler, don’t make out I am talking bull by requesting I name specific examples on the telephone. Just keep your eyes peeled on this blog you’ll see plenty more examples of merchants who say yes to 4.6 in due course. So guess what I will be doing this evening. Wasting my time again going through merchants, because in my personal (not company) opinion I think it’s incompetence on Tradedoubler’s behalf. There will be about 400 merchants to go thru & from the first 40 we have been through so far about a third of them had “yes” to clause 4.6 … Screwfix one of their recent programs says “yes” to, but really we wouldn’t look beyond Affiliate Window as the program is already on there, which is a more preferable network.

Oh, by the way where was the email that went out with regard to the keyword policy for Penguin? More like an ostrich, if you goto “Penguin UK FAQ”, the pop up has no information. On the merchant info page in program settings (not the same as the former) you’ll see the various restrictions which were added without notifying affiliates, if you go to the overview page for Penguin, you’ll see that the keyword policy says Open. If you go to program list it says open there too, so we have conflicting info again. So Tradedoubler accused “another” affiliate first, when nothing was there, then add them without notification. One of the problems is they find somewhere where it maybe is when they afflict their contemptious wrath.

The latest one is Vonage where there are currently no restrictions.

… and we haven’t even got onto affiliate support & payments yet which has been discussed a bit on the forum. So Tradedoubler be very careful when you accuse affiliates of doing something deliberately wrong, no doubt you’ll want to get your allies on board & I am sure one or two will be more than willing to furnish you with nonsense.

There are a plethora of merchants who we have wanted to promote a lot further than what we do already (if we do that is) on Tradedoubler, but as a message to those merchants, I can only apologise but Tradedoubler have historically made things inhibitive that for me & other affiliates they don’t offer the value of service when the need arises and thus lining their pocket with the undeserved over-ride doesn’t sit well.

Unfortunately some affiliates don’t speak up beyond airing opinions in private conversation as retribution is one of their fears.

From their representation at the AMC, there are one or two from Tradedoubler I certainly wouldn’t be comfortable with having any vote on affiliate marketing issues.

I wonder if that AOL offer is looking like an attractive proposition in hindsight at 215KR, when the IPO was circa 108. When the all time high was circa 225KR, 52 week high is circa 185KR .. and what was is it today … circa only 61KR .. ouch!

There are currently 10 responses to “Tradedoubler – Don’t You Dare Threaten Me … You Liars Liars Liars !!! www.tradedoubler.com Affiliate Network”

Why not let us know what you think by adding your own comment! Your opinion is as valid as anyone elses, so come on... let us know what you think.

  1. 1 On August 1st, 2008, mat said:

    Tradedoubler sucks, there support team doesnt respond 10x times i contacted them 3 different emails not a reply i had to get in touch with a rep through digital point. Makes you think nobody is even at the offices?

    But of course they are, they are still spamming newsletters day in day out!!!

    commission i earned in February was payed late july So thats feb,march,april,may,june,july.

    Apparently the merchant didnt release payment, well i dont care i earned it give it to me if you want me to work with you again.

  2. 2 On August 4th, 2008, mike said:

    You know whatever gripes you may have with the network, writing about how your children’s lives will be ruined is rather pathetic. I mean really, you’re acting like a 16 year old kid!

    I am far from being a top affiliate yet one thing I do know, you don’t put all your eggs in one basket, I presume you don’t. If so, then your problems with TD may set you back, but should not ruin you.

  3. 3 On August 4th, 2008, Paul said:

    All I can say is that I am glad you are not my parent and perhaps you should have second thoughts about having any children or being a parent yourself.

    You seem to be missing the point that potential success of client programs & the success of affiliates not reaching potential can be down to manhandling & riding roughshod of the occassional network over affiliates, then clients should be aware of this, further encouraging dual networks so affiliates have the choice.

    At least TD know who to come to if they want their belly tickled 😉

  4. 4 On August 5th, 2008, mike said:

    Actually I get your point fully – and agree – but trying to leverage peoples emotions by doing the whole woe is me and my children’s lives are on your shoulders routine is not the way to go about it.

    Why not take a more professional approach to your complaints. You would gain respect from your peers and perhaps the network will be more open to listening to your complaints.

  5. 5 On August 7th, 2008, alex said:

    I also agree with your points. I won’t air all my frustrations with them but they are similar to yours. Basically a lack of any 2 way dialogue. Its at the point where I immediately see the smallest of issues that could be sorted with a simple email as being a show stopper, as I know TD will just ignore me.

    With regards to your angry style in this post – well where else can you vent your spleen? It’s not like you can go to TD. I for one have no problem with viewing it as a threat to your families livelihood (however small a threat). It is. This is what we do to bring home the bacon and caring about that isn’t pathetic and i certainly wouldn’t wish sterility upon you for it for speaking out in your blog.

  6. 6 On August 7th, 2008, Paul said:

    Hi Mike,

    It’s a historical issue, not singular, but multiple instances. Various avenues have been explored before. I don’t blog or participate in forum threads as any ego trip. And I am certainly not here for winning popularity contests (as you can probably tell). Wearing rose tinted glasses is certainly not my style (what style), though I am comfortable in my masculinity wearing pink.

    My blog involves an occassional personal diary (part off) of my own affiliate experiences, perceptions & opinions. Perhaps I should be a little more contentious with points of view, rather than holding back. The word “professional” is often used too liberally & flippantly with rethorical effect & without substance. Even with some of the lightweight contraversy you may have perused on this blog, we get lambasted quite a bit in private discussions by some on a number of comments for being frank & seeing through veils of propaganda (an extravagant use of the word) & lip service. For me that is water of a ducks back, goes with the territory, a calculated risk & I have the broad shoulders to take it. 😉

    Different networks deal with affiliates in different ways, the most productive is via a mutual respect.

    The bigger problem with affiliate marketing nowadays, is the lack of solidarity between affiliates (alikened to the style of Lech Walesa) and too often affiliates are just solitary sentinels p***ing into the wind.

    As for being a top affiliate, I am far from being that and that isn’t a target or priority, i’ll reiterate again .. my priority is my missus & children, but I’ve certainly been around the block a few times with the receding grey hair follicles & portly tummy to illustrate.

    Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to comment, and good luck with acheiving any goals you have set out for yourself in affiliate marketing.

    *Solidarity – A union of interests, purposes, or sympathies among members of a group; fellowship of responsibilities and interests: “A downtrodden class … will never be able to make an effective protest until it achieves solidarity” (H.G. Wells)

  7. 7 On August 7th, 2008, Bob said:

    What do you do though when you’ve spent years trying to influence TD in a ‘professional’ manner, following the required course, using the ‘appropriate’ channels ? They’ve been ‘corporate’ for ages and by now, given the high level of irritation from my own not-that-frequent use of their interface, contacts etc. etc., I can fully understand that sooner or later people get angry.

    To be honest, its the feeling of dealing with a faceless, intractable thing that winds people up, just like my previous hosting company, who were not that large, deciding to have an Indian call-centre, where I had to spell out my domains one letter at a time, before I could even have any sort of sensible conversation with them.

    Fortunately with them I had an easy choice to just drop them, but that isn’t the case with TD. There are still essential merchants on there who I dearly wish would go with another network. Plenty of affiliates are dependent on them.

  8. 8 On August 15th, 2008, Jessica said:

    impo, for what its worth there has been a steady decline in the way TD operate and its not just affiliates that are seeing that communication has fallen to an all time low. I can only speculate and read between the lines as to why this bottle neck is happening, perhaps high turn over of staff thus making continuity difficult for both affiliates, merchants and even within TD themselves. UK still being reliant on Sweden in terms of technology. I cant believe TD would not be aware of this and are probably doing all they can to rectify this as quickly as they can, but that’s their baggage to sort out. A classic example of why working with two affiliate networks is advisable (A debate for another day) and detracts away from the main point.

    Im wondering if there is enough experienced people at TD to be able to negotiate with some merchants who have done a bit of a U turn on their PPC or some merchants that don’t fully understand PPC and are taking/making decisions on a knee jerk reaction, just a thought.
    Is it easier to finger point at an affiliate as one affiliate does not equal the collective in “their” affiliate program or network?. Maybe Im thinking too deeply here. I would be interested to find out the origins and chain of events that lead to such a break down in the relationship and how it could have been handled differently. If TD had that time back again, would they have handled it differently and I think they would have and would encourage them to reassess the situation, the role of the affiliate network surely is to keep the equilibrium between the affiliate and merchant, by alienating an affiliate, regardless if they are a top affiliate or not, is potentially a loss of present and future revenue. Are we an industry that can afford to lose potential revenue generating affiliates? In this current climate, no I don’t think they can.

    I hope it gets sorted as always I hear you and agree with you and I understand that reference about your kids, no criticism from me.

  9. 9 On August 18th, 2008, Linda said:

    I am a former td employee having left a couple of years ago now.

    Paul (Shopper UK)is one of the most unpleasant people I have ever had to deal with- utterly unproffesional, emotional and worse- a bully. I know for a fact he has this reputation with other networks too.

    I worked at td for 3 years and in that time Paul made 3 members of staff cry with his brutish verbal assaults. Without exception, everyone disliked his bully boy tactics. A interesting trait which i have learnt subsequently is not unique to Paul was the fact that the more in the wrong he was the more loud and bullish he became. td would have chucked him off the network years ago, but, too his credit, he was generating significant revenue.

    Paul, you need to take a long, hard look at yourself. You have kids as you keep saying, well if they knew half the things you got up to, not least your greedy and unpleasant way of dealing with people, then you would be in a pretty sorry place right now.

    Look, tduk are going through change right now, but they do invest in their people and they will improve.
    Work with them and air your grievances privately to them – work out a solution.

    Currently, you are bring down the good name of affiliates by your activities – sort it out and move on

  10. 10 On August 18th, 2008, Paul said:

    Thank for your bemusing comments, again illustrating the exaggeration, grudges & lies we have had to continuously endure if we stand up for ourselves. But it’s what we have come to predictably expect from some people or parties who can’t accept when they have made errors or have the character to admit when they are wrong rather than being vindictive towards the affiliate in a kangeroo court manner who if they made a minor error would apologise & move on. Perhaps this indicates you were maybe not the right calibre of person if after a couple years you still wish to slander people (affiliates) who stand up to oppressive elements within a few networks in the industry who exercise power arbitrarily and often unjustly in a tyrannical manner behind some corporate shield.

    Resolutions to issues can be so simple, unfortunately some can be so inept when they cannot accept that affiliates maybe right. Nice (maybe not the appropiate wording) to see this blog has lured one of the old vermin out of the woodwork with fairly predictable comments, to which your comments are duly noted.

    As for insulting my parenting skills (and that of my partner), and that of the intelligence of my children from recognising right from wrong, really indicates how pitiful you probably are. You are not exactly doing your former network any favours now or previously with undue stress you & your company bestowed upon us, forgetting that perhaps you / they were the instigators of problems.

    A CV is not required (return to sender) 😉

    http://www.affiliates4u.com/forums/tradedoubler/19854-tradedoubler-adware-addendum.html

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